Tell me more ×
Cross Validated is a question and answer site for statisticians, data analysts, data miners and data visualization experts. It's 100% free, no registration required.

A former colleague once argued to me as follows: "we usually apply normality tests to the results of processes that, under the null, generate random variables that are only asymptotically or nearly normal (with the 'asymptotically' part dependent on some quantity which we cannot make large); In the era of cheap memory, big data, and fast processors, normality tests should always reject the null of normal distribution for large (though not insanely large) samples. And so, perversely, normality tests should only be used for small samples, when they presumably have lower power and less control over type I rate."

Is this a valid argument? Is this a well-known argument? Are there well known tests for a 'fuzzier' null hypothesis than normality?

share|improve this question
9  
For reference: I don't think that this needed to be community wiki. – Shane Sep 8 '10 at 17:57
I wasn't sure there was a 'right answer'... – shabbychef Sep 8 '10 at 18:01
In a certain sense, this is true of all test of a finite number of parameters. With $k$ fixed (the number of parameters on which the test is caried) and $n$ growthing without bounds, any difference between the two groups (no matter how small) will always break the null at some point. Actually, this is an argument in favor of bayesian tests. – user603 Sep 8 '10 at 18:07
For me, it is not a valid argument. Anyway, before giving any answer you need to formalize things a little bit. You may be wrong and you may not be but now what you have is nothing more than an intuition: for me the sentence "In the era of cheap memory, big data, and fast processors, normality tests should always reject the null of normal " needs clarifications :) I think that if you try giving more formal precision the answer will be simple. – robin girard Sep 8 '10 at 19:01
show 1 more comment

8 Answers

up vote 50 down vote accepted

It's not an argument. It is a (a bit strongly stated) fact that formal normality tests always reject on the huge sample sizes we work with today. It's even easy to proof that when n gets large, even the smallest deviation from perfect normality will lead to a significant result. And as every dataset has some degree of randomness...

Let me illustrate with the Shapiro-Wilks test. If you construct an almost-normal distribution and do a small simulation, you get more or less following results in R :

x <- replicate(100,{ # generates 100 different tests on each distribution
  c(
    shapiro.test(rnorm(10)+c(1,0,2,0,1))$p.value,
    shapiro.test(rnorm(100)+c(1,0,2,0,1))$p.value,
    shapiro.test(rnorm(1000)+c(1,0,2,0,1))$p.value,
    shapiro.test(rnorm(5000)+c(1,0,2,0,1))$p.value
    )
  } # rnorm gives a random draw from the normal distribution
)
rownames(x)<-c("n10","n100","n1000","n5000")

rowMeans(x<0.05) # the proportion of significant deviations
    n10  n100 n1000 n5000 
    0.04  0.04  0.20  0.87 

so in 87% of the cases, the last distribution is not seen any more as a normal distribution. Yet, if you see the qq plots, you would never ever decide on a deviation from normality. Below you see as an example the qq-plots for one set of random samples

alt text

with p-values

 n10  n100 n1000 n5000 
0.760 0.681 0.164 0.007 
share|improve this answer
this is great! I'm slapping myself for not doing the experiments myself... – shabbychef Sep 8 '10 at 22:35
7  
On a side note, the central limit theorem makes the formal normality check unnecessary in many cases when n is large. – Joris Meys Sep 8 '10 at 23:19
3  
yes, the real question is not whether the data are actually distributed normally but are they sufficiently normal for the underlying assumption of normality to be reasonable for the practical purpose of the analysis, and I would have thought the CLT based argument is normally [sic] sufficient for that. – Dikran Marsupial Sep 9 '10 at 9:37
+1: great answer, very intuitive. Perhaps a bit off-topic but how would one go about implement the second method without qq-plots (due to lack of visualization)? What logical steps are taken here to get the p-values? – posdef Feb 10 '11 at 13:04
1  
@joris: I think there might have been a misunderstanding; Shapiro-Wilks give p_{n5000} = 0.87 while the second calculation yields p_{n5000} = 0.007. Or have I misunderstood something? – posdef Feb 10 '11 at 14:58
show 6 more comments

When thinking about whether normality testing is 'essentially useless', one first has to think about what it is supposed to be useful for. Many people (well... at least, many scientists) misunderstand the question the normality test answers.

The question normality tests answer: Is there convincing evidence of any deviation from the Gaussian ideal? With moderately large real data sets, the answer is almost always yes.

The question scientists often expect the normality test to answer: Do the data deviate enough from the Gaussian ideal to "forbid" use of a test that assumes a Gaussian distribution? Scientists often want the normality test to be the referee that decides when to abandon conventional (ANOVA, etc.) tests and instead analyze transformed data or use a rank-based nonparametric test or a resampling or bootstrap approach. For this purpose, normality tests are not very useful.

share|improve this answer
2  
+1 for a good and informative answer. I find it useful to see a good explanation for a common misunderstanding (which I have incidentally been experiencing myself: stats.stackexchange.com/questions/7022/…). What I miss though, is an alternative solution to this common misunderstanding. I mean, if normality tests are the wrong way to go, how does one go about checking if a normal approximation is acceptable/justified? – posdef Feb 10 '11 at 12:45
1  
There's is not substitute for the (common) sense of the analyst (or, well, the researcher/scientist). And experience (learnt by trying and seeing: what conclusions do I get if I assume it is normal? What are the difference if not?). Graphics are your best friends. – FairMiles Apr 5 at 15:33

IMHO normality tests are absolutely useless for the following reasons:

  1. On small samples, there's a good chance that the true distribution of the population is substantially non-normal, but the normality test isn't powerful to pick it up.

  2. On large samples, things like the T-test and ANOVA are pretty robust to non-normality.

  3. The whole idea of a normally distributed population is just a convenient mathematical approximation anyhow. None of the quantities typically dealt with statistically could plausibly have distributions with a support of all real numbers. For example, people can't have a negative height. Something can't have negative mass or more mass than there is in the universe. Therefore, it's safe to say that nothing is exactly normally distributed in the real world.

share|improve this answer
Electrical potential difference is an example of a real-world quantity that can be negative. – nico Sep 19 '10 at 13:03
1  
@nico: Sure it can be negative, but there's some finite limit to it because there are only so many protons and electrons in the Universe. Of course this is irrelevant in practice, but that's my point. Nothing is exactly normally distributed (the model is wrong), but there are lots of things that are close enough (the model is useful). Basically, you already knew the model was wrong, and rejecting or not rejecting the null gives essentially no information about whether it's nonetheless useful. – dsimcha Sep 22 '10 at 19:39
@dsimcha - I find that a really insightful, useful response. – rolando2 May 4 '12 at 21:34

I think that tests for normality can be useful as companions to graphical examinations. They have to be used in the right way, though. In my opinion, this means that many popular tests, such as the Shapiro-Wilk, Anderson-Darling and Jarque-Bera tests never should be used.

Before I explain my standpoint, let me make a few remarks:

  • In an interesting recent paper Rochon et al. studied the impact of the Shapiro-Wilk test on the two-sample t-test. The two-step procedure of testing for normality before carrying out for instance a t-test is not without problems. Then again, neither is the two-step procedure of graphically investigating normality before carrying out a t-test. The difference is that the impact of the latter is much more difficult to investigate (as it would require a statistician to graphically investigate normality $100,000$ or so times...).
  • It is useful to quantify non-normality, for instance by computing the sample skewness, even if you don't want to perform a formal test.
  • Multivariate normality can be difficult to assess graphically and convergence to asymptotic distributions can be slow for multivariate statistics. Tests for normality are therefore more useful in a multivariate setting.
  • Tests for normality are perhaps especially useful for practitioners who use statistics as a set of black-box methods. When normality is rejected, the practitioner should be alarmed and, rather than carrying out a standard procedure based on the assumption of normality, consider using a nonparametric procedure, applying a transformation or consulting a more experienced statistician.
  • As has been pointed out by others, if $n$ is large enough, the CLT usually saves the day. However, what is "large enough" differs for different classes of distributions.

(In my definiton) a test for normality is directed directed against a class of alternatives if it is sensitive to alternatives from that class, but not sensitive to alternatives from other classes. Typical examples are tests that are directed towards skew or kurtotic alternatives. The simplest examples use the sample skewness and kurtosis as test statistics.

Directed tests of normality are arguably often preferable to omnibus tests (such as the Shapiro-Wilk and Jarque-Bera tests) since it is common that only some types of non-normality are of concern for a particular inferential procedure.

Let's consider Student's t-test as an example. Assume that we have an i.i.d. sample from a distribution with skewness $\gamma=\frac{E(X-\mu)^3}{\sigma^3}$ and (excess) kurtosis $\kappa=\frac{E(X-\mu)^4}{\sigma^4}-3.$ If $X$ is symmetric about its mean, $\gamma=0$. Both $\gamma$ and $\kappa$ are 0 for the normal distribution.

Under regularity assumptions, we obtain the following asymptotic expansion for the cdf of the test statistic $T_n$: $$P(T_n\leq x)=\Phi(x)+n^{-1/2}\frac{1}{6}\gamma(2x^2+1)\phi(x)-n^{-1}x\Big(\frac{1}{12}\kappa (x^2-3)-\frac{1}{18}\gamma^2(x^4+2x^2-3)-\frac{1}{4}(x^2+3)\Big)\phi(x)+o(n^{-1}),$$

where $\Phi(\cdot)$ is the cdf and $\phi(\cdot)$ is the pdf of the standard normal distribution.

$\gamma$ appears for the first time in the $n^{-1/2}$ term, whereas $\kappa$ appears in the $n^{-1}$ term. The asymptotic performance of $T_n$ is much more sensitive to deviations from normality in the form of skewness than in the form of kurtosis.

It can be verified using simulations that this is true for small $n$ as well. Thus Student's t-test is sensitive to skewness but relatively robust against heavy tails, and it is reasonable to use a test for normality that is directed towards skew alternatives before applying the t-test.

As a rule of thumb (not a law of nature), inference about means is sensitive to skewness and inference about variances is sensitive to kurtosis.

Using a directed test for normality has the benefit of getting higher power against ''dangerous'' alternatives and lower power against alternatives that are less ''dangerous'', meaning that we are less likely to reject normality because of deviations from normality that won't affect the performance of our inferential procedure. The non-normality is quantified in a way that is relevant to the problem at hand. This is not always easy to do graphically.

As $n$ gets larger, skewness and kurtosis become less important - and directed tests are likely to detect if these quantities deviate from 0 even by a small amount. In such cases, it seems reasonable to, for instance, test whether $|\gamma|\leq 1$ or (looking at the first term of the expansion above) $$|n^{-1/2}\frac{1}{6}\gamma(2z_{\alpha/2}^2+1)\phi(z_{\alpha/2})|\leq 0.01$$ rather than whether $\gamma=0$. This takes care of some of the problems that we otherwise face as $n$ gets larger.

share|improve this answer

Let me add one small thing:
Performing a normality test without taking its alpha-error into account heightens your overall probability of performing an alpha-error.

You shall never forget that each additional test does this as long as you don't control for alpha-error accumulation. Hence, another good reason to dismiss normality testing.

share|improve this answer
I presume you are referring to a situation where one first does a normality test, and then uses the result of that test to decide which test to perform next. – Harvey Motulsky Sep 9 '10 at 16:07
2  
I refer to the general utility of normality tests when used as method to determine whether or not it is appropriate to use a certain method. If you apply them in these cases, it is, in terms of probability of committing an alpha error, better to perform a more robust test to avoid the alpha error accumulation. – Henrik Sep 10 '10 at 10:42
Hello Henrik, you bring an interesting case of multiple comparisons which I never thought of in this case - thanks. (+1) – Tal Galili Sep 10 '10 at 16:59
This does not make sense to me. Even if you decide between, say, an ANOVA or a rank-based method based on a test of normality (a bad idea of course), at the end of the day you would still only perform one test of the comparison of interest. If you reject normality erroneously, you still haven't reached a wrong conclusion regarding this particular comparison. You might be performing two tests but the only case in which you can conclude that factor such-and-such have an effect is when the second test also rejects $H_0$, not when only the first one does. Hence, no alpha-error accumulation… – Gaël Laurans Jun 8 at 11:24
In a way, this bring us back to common criticisms of null-hypothesis significance testing (Why not adjust for all the tests you will perform in your career? And if yes, how can the conclusions afforded by a body of data be different depending on the intent/future career of the researcher?) but really those two tests are unrelated as they come. For example, the case to correct for a test because you published something on the same topic years ago seems a lot stronger. – Gaël Laurans Jun 8 at 11:26
show 1 more comment

The argument you gave is an opinion. I think that the importance of normality testing is to make sure that the data does not depart severely from the normal. I use it sometimes to decide between using a parametric versus a nonparametric test for my inference procedure. I think the test can be useful in moderate and large samples (when the central limit theorem does not come into play). I tend to use Wilk-Shapiro or Anderson-Darling tests but running SAS I get them all and they generally agree pretty well. On a different note I think that graphical procedures such as Q-Q plots work equally well. The advantage of a formal test is that it is objective. In small samples it is true that these goodness of fit tests have practically no power and that makes intuitive sense because a small sample from a normal distribution might by chance look rather non normal and that is accounted for in the test. Also high skewness and kurtosis that distinguish many non normal distributions from nomrla distribution are not easily seen in small samples.

share|improve this answer
1  
While it certainly can be used that way, I don't think you will be more objective than with a QQ-Plot. The subjective part with the tests is when to decide that your data is to non-normal. With a large sample rejecting at p=0.05 might very well be excessive. – Erik May 4 '12 at 17:56
3  
Pre-testing (as suggested here) can invalidate the Type I error rate of the overall process; one should take into account the fact that a pre-test was done when interpreting the results of whichever test it selected. More generally, hypothesis tests should be kept for testing null hypothesis one actually cares about, i.e. that there is no association between variables. The null hypothesis that the data is exactly Normal doesn't fall into this category. – guest May 4 '12 at 18:02
(+1) There is excellent advice here. Erik, the use of "objective" took me aback too, until I realized Michael's right: two people correctly conducting the same test on the same data will always get the same p-value, but they might interpret the same Q-Q plot differently. Guest: thank you for the cautionary note about Type I error. But why should we not care about the data distribution? Frequently that is interesting and valuable information. I at least want to know whether the data are consistent with the assumptions my tests are making about them! – whuber May 4 '12 at 18:25
1  
I strongly disagree. Both people get the same QQ-plot and same the p-value. To interpret the p-value you need to take into account the sample size and the violations of normality your test is particular sensitive to. So deciding what to do with your p-value is just as subjective. The reason you might prefer the p-value is that you believe the data could follow a perfect normal distribution - else it is just a question how quickly the p-value falls with sample size. Which is more, given a decent sample size the QQ-plot looks pretty much the same and remains stable with more samples. – Erik May 4 '12 at 20:30
Erik, I agree that test results and graphics require interpretation. But the test result is a number and there won't be any dispute about it. The QQ plot, however, admits of multiple descriptions. Although each may objectively be correct, the choice of what to pay attention to is...a choice. That's what "subjective" means: the result depends on the analyst, not just the procedure itself. This is why, for instance, in settings as varied as control charts and government regulations where "objectivity" is important, criteria are based on numerical tests and never graphical results. – whuber May 4 '12 at 21:54
show 2 more comments

I think a maximum entropy approach could be useful here. We can assign a normal distribution because we believe the data is "normally distributed" (whatever that means) or because we only expect to see deviations of about the same Magnitude. Also, because the normal distribution has just two sufficient statistics, it is insensitive to changes in the data which do not alter these quantities. So in a sense you can think of a normal distribution as an "average" over all possible distributions with the same first and second moments. this provides one reason why least squares should work as well as it does.

share|improve this answer

I think the first 2 questions have been thoroughly answered but I don't think question 3 was addressed. Many tests compare the empirical distribution to a known hypothesized distribution. The critical value for the Kolmogorov-Smirnov test is based on F being completely sppecified. It can be modified to test against a parametric distribution with parameters estimated. So if fuzzier means estimating more than two parameters then the answer to the question is yes. These tests can be applied the 3 parameter families or more. Some tests are designed to have better power when testing against a specific family of distributions. For example when testing normality the Anderson-Darling or the Shapiro-Wilk test have greater power than K-S or chi square when the null hypothesized distribution is normal. Lillefors devised a test that is preferred for exponential distributions.

share|improve this answer

Your Answer

 
discard

By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.