14
$\begingroup$

I am looking for an example of 2 random variables $X$, $Y$ such that

$$\newcommand{\cor}{{\rm cor}}|\cor(X,Y)| \approx 0 $$

but when consider the tail part of the distributions, they are highly correlated. (I try to avoid 'correlated' / 'correlation' for the tail because it might not be linear).

Probably use this:

$$|\cor(X', Y')| \gg 0$$

where $X'$ is conditional on $X > 90\%$ of $X$'s population, and $Y'$ is defined in the same sense.

$\endgroup$
11
  • 8
    $\begingroup$ Independent variables that are dependent? My brain just exploded. You can't ask this sort of question on Monday morning $\endgroup$
    – Aksakal
    Commented Oct 3, 2016 at 17:41
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Given the upvoted answer, this Q does seem answerable. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 3, 2016 at 19:04
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ To help this make sense to people, consider how much you care about gun issues and how much you like/hate the NRA. The correlation will probably be near zero. People who care the most about gun issues can either love or hate the NRA. But they will be very dependent. People who care the most about gun issues will almost never be in the middle of the pro-NRA/anti-NRA spectrum. People at the very top or bottom end of the pro-NRA/anti-NRA spectrum will tend to care more about gun issues than people in the middle. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 3, 2016 at 20:00
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ I'm sorry for stating the unclear question. I just want to visualize how it works for some independent distributions having some kinda of extreme dependence (not necessarily correlation). $\endgroup$
    – Kmz
    Commented Oct 3, 2016 at 20:42
  • 2
    $\begingroup$ There are a host of copulas with weak overall dependence but strong tail dependence; the exact overall correlation would be affected by what the distribution of the marginals was. $\endgroup$
    – Glen_b
    Commented Oct 3, 2016 at 22:00

1 Answer 1

24
$\begingroup$

Here's an example where $X$ and $Y$ even have normal marginals.

Let:

$$X \sim N(0,1)$$

Conditional on $X$, let $Y = X$ if $|X| > \phi$, or $Y = -X$ otherwise, for some constant $\phi$.

You can show that, independently of $\phi$, marginally we have:

$$Y \sim N(0,1)$$

There is a value of $\phi$ such that $\text{cor}(X,Y) = 0$. If $\phi = 1.54$ then $\text{cor}(X,Y)\approx 0$.

However, $X$ and $Y$ are not independent, and extreme values of both are perfectly dependent. See simulation in R below, and the plot that follows.

Nsim <- 10000
set.seed(123)

x <- rnorm(Nsim)
y <- ifelse(abs(x)>1.54,x,-x)

print(cor(x,y)) # 0.00284 \approx 0

plot(x,y)

extreme.x <- which(abs(x)>qnorm(0.95))
extreme.y <- which(abs(y)>qnorm(0.95))
extreme.both <- intersect(extreme.x,extreme.y)

print(cor(x[extreme.both],y[extreme.both])) # Exactly 1

enter image description here

$\endgroup$
2
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ (+1) If you want the distribution to not just be uncorrelated, but also not very dependent, you can do a modification of this that replaces the hard threshold swap with a fuzzy one. That's harder to get the math to line up, but it's doable. $\endgroup$ Commented Oct 3, 2016 at 20:23
  • 1
    $\begingroup$ Thank you Chris Haug! Your idea helps me visualize what I'm doing. $\endgroup$
    – Kmz
    Commented Oct 3, 2016 at 21:00

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge you have read our privacy policy.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.